07.09k: Shifting Topics

[Joshua]

Odin will take a breath and repeat something from before.

"Imagine, for a moment, that this society functions and flourishes. Have it expand to fill this shadow, and all the surrounding ones. Annexing thousands of shadows just to handle the overflow of the populace. Have it last so long that no one remembers this time, and each of you has founded a dynasty that spans worlds, if not shadows and shadows of shadows. Have them worship you as gods and this power of pattern you have is granted to those you wish and denotes who is in charge in all places."

He pauses and lets that sink in.

"Then someone comes along and cuts Dworkin's arm off." He will pause, "Not just his arm, but his ability to form a right arm. And carries that away for an unknown purpose... In response, Dworkin not only forbids anyone from walking pattern again, but all those who have walked it lose their abilities. And everyone who tries to walk it to regain the power or gain it anew dies horribly."

"What would that world look like in only a month? Ours was made worse by our shapeshifting, and the way such transitions have happened in the past, but I think that's sufficient for now to understand the magnitude of what Dworkin did to our homeland. The deaths were not personally inflicted by him, but he offended the guardian of our major power to such a degree that guardian cut off all links to that power."

[ShadowOfPreservation]

"I'd like to think that if that scenario were to play out here, things wouldn't change all that much. We'd all just have to try harder with whatever power we do have to keep making things better. Having access to power or the Pattern isn't a defining characteristic of leadership. In many cases the best leader isn't always the strongest, just the most capable. And I'm well aware I'm no God and would never wish to be seen as one. Eilistraee is my guide."

"I'm not sure why Dworkin did what he did. That's a question only he can answer. But if your society suffered because of how this guardian reacted to what he did, I'd say the guardian would be at least partly responsible."

"And why would you think the expansion of this land speed out to annex other Shadows? I would think they would remain seperate."

[Rasanam]

Rasanam ponders, and then responds to Lyra's question, "I think that part was hypothetical? Actually," he turns back to Odin, "that might be one possible answer to your question from yesterday- to help prevent that degree of hubris from forming."

[Joshua]

"Happening here? Yes, that's hypothetical. Dworkin actually did that to my home world." Odin will turn to Lyra, and grow about four inches as he speaks... "If you think it is the Serpent's fault then I have not impressed upon you the level and depth of insult, injury, abandonment and orders offered by Dworkin to his guardian."

Odin will quickly compose himself... "As to the other points... Pattern makes you a god; the sooner you accept that, the better off this place will be. You clearly do not understand the nature of life if you think that civility would rule if that was lost and you do not understand what this place would look like with a million times the people here."
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OOC Note: I could not find a way to have him respond to both Lyra and Rasanam. He heard you... it just hasn't sunk in yet.

[Rasanam]

"You mentioned yesterday exchanging some knowledge of the power you lost for a demonstration of Pattern," Rasanam says, in what might at first appear to be a total non sequitur.

"Allow me to demonstrate, then, the limits of what I can do with Pattern here." The only visible result is that Rasanam's shapeshifting spell fails, reverting him to his normal elven form - though those with sufficient psyche (Amber+ should do it) can tell he's called Pattern to mind...

OOC, the point is relatively simple: At least in Amber, Pattern does not make him a god, or in fact offer any direct or obvious benefit.

[Joshua]

The effects are fairly noticeable, at least to Rasanam. Odin gains a significant boost to his interactions from subconsciously using Shift Persona to resemble someone likable. In D&D terms, it looks like he lost about 8 points of charisma, but only with respect to Rasanam.

"Interesting. The power we lost, Logrus you have called it, does that, but it is more visible, with a physical representation often appearing. Still, more advanced users can simply channel the power through them." He will look at you... then realize what you think you're saying. "Uh, do you honestly have no idea what this allows you to do? I mean, you stand above a god at the moment, invulnerable and capable of harming anything."

[Rasanam]

(OOC: Edited prior post to include the very visible effect of Pattern shredding Rasanam's shapeshifting spell.)

Rasanam shakes his head. "I've done some testing, and - while this is an excellent defense against an uncreative wizard or certain esoteric energies and effects - it's a far cry from 'invulnerable' or 'godlike power'. Against any serious attack, I was better defended before I brought Pattern to mind."

(OOC aside: Pattern defense does actually do a bit more than Rasanam thinks it does; someone attacking with magically boosted strength, for example, will not gain the benefit of the magical boost. Rasanam's tests have not been particularly exhaustive, in part due to a simple lack of time, and in part because he's avoided putting himself in situations where he'd be seriously injured if Pattern Defense failed to protect him. But an ordinary person with a sword could run him through in his elven form, where the same attack would simply bounce off the scales of the armored drake form he was using before.)

[Joshua]

Odin will blink in utter disbelief. "You have a different concept of serious than most people. It is only ineffective against non-serious attacks. If a god tried to stop you, there is nothing they could do."

He pauses and thinks. "If Ares and Apollo fought on Mount Olympus, it would seem to be two mortals in conflict. If they fought elsewhere, any other mountain would tremble."

[ShadowOfPreservation]

"Having that power still doesn't make us Gods. We could use it to be heroes, saviors, or advisers perhaps. But I think it's a dangerous step to call ones' self a God. That sort of hubris can lead to breaking the shackles of morality and becoming not a god but a monster. No matter what Power I ever hold, it will not place me above my Goddess. I am her servant in this and every other world."

"As for civility breaking down without this power, it is possible. Civilizations do rise and fall but what I want to see built here is a society that works not because of the power a few of us hold, but the trust we all have in each other. And I think that's the best way we can help the most people, both here and in every shadow directly influenced by here."

[Rasanam]

Rasanam shakes his head again. "Maybe your... 'Logrus', you called it? Worked like that. Pattern, though... To start with, maintaining this requires most of my attention. And even if we assume that's a mere issue of inexperience, it still does not offer any* protection against simple physical effects. Certainly, some local-shadow 'god' might have trouble if it simply flung power at me - but that falls under the 'uncreative wizard' category, when all it needs to do to be a threat is pick up a sword."

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* See OOC aside from my previous post for where Rasanam is wrong about this.